Special Treatment
Some eBayers are less equal than others.
I’m pretty miffed at eBay.
Yet again, a firm has punished my loyalty by excluding me from special deals offered to new customers.
We’ve seen this time and time again.
My latest experience teaches the value of:
- Avoiding sudden moves.
- Keeping customers informed.
- Ensuring your definition of ‘good’ matches theirs.
We’ll also see how ‘online chat help’ stacks up.
Good News
It began so well …
After seven years of dedicated eBaying, I’d earned a 100% approval rating from 391 customer reviews. (And if you’ve endured the cretins who try to rort eBay, you’ll know this is quite a feat.)
So I was delighted when eBay unilaterally tacked a PowerSeller logo to my name. I clicked it to learn that:
PowerSellers are a community of sellers who are recognised and respected for their selling efforts on eBay.
As pillars of our community, PowerSellers are committed to upholding and embracing the core values that are the very foundation of eBay.
They are exemplary members who are held to the highest standards of professionalism, having achieved and maintained a 98% positive feedback rating and an excellent sales performance record.
Yep! I thought. That’s me alright! Nice one, eBay. So what do I get? What do I get? 
Bad News
What I got was an email offering a weekend of FREE ads.
This didn’t look like a PowerSeller-specific offer, but I was still eager to take the win.
It was timely, as I had 22 unsold items ready to relist.
I started to do so, only to find my ads were not going up for free.
After some exploration, I found fine print which said the offer excluded PowerSellers!
I was literally being punished for being a good guy.
We were only talking a few bucks, so I was confident of negotiating a solution via eBay’s online help chat.
Petra Fried
Thank you for contacting eBay Australia Live Help! Please hold for the next available Live Help representative.
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Petra*. has joined this session!
Connected with Petra.
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Hi! Thank you for contacting eBay, Petra here. Can I grab your full name please?
Paul Hassing.
Thanks and how can I be of help Paul?
It seems the deal of free ads over this weekend doesn’t apply to PowerSellers. Is this true, Petra?
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Are you still there?
Yes I am here.
What free ads are you referring to?
I got an email on Friday offering no insert fees for all ads starting at $0.99. When I read the fine print, however, it said it didn’t apply to PowerSellers. This upset me, as I’ve just become a PowerSeller and I feel I’m being punished for my loyalty, while lesser eBayers are getting a better deal. Is this the case, or do I have my wires crossed?
Are you referring to this List your 99c Auctions for free?
Yes. The fine print says: *Not available to Store subscribers, accounts registered outside Australia, PowerSellers and business registered sellers.
I understand you would want to avail of the offer.
Let e explain this to you.
Yes for any offers there are terms and conditions also qualification just like of becoming a power seller.
Why you are not qualify for the reduced pricing? Because your fees are reduced already.
Much reduced than regular sellers.
How much?
It depends on your Powerseller Status as you were given discounts.
Also if you have a store insertion fees and final value fees are lesser too./
Right. Would you concede that, whatever discounts I now receive as a PowerSeller, they’re not quite as attractive as FREE?
Then it’s your option now.
Youc an opt out as a power seller.
Right. Would you also agree it’s a bit ordinary that, after 7 years, 391 positive comments and a 100% positive approval rating, it’s not unreasonable for me to wish I could enjoy the weekend benefit lesser eBayers are receiving as we speak?
It is your opinion and that is respected. Everyone fines something that suits for them depending on how they benefit from things being offered.
If you think that you can benefit more on not being a powerseller then it’s your point of view.
OK, Petra. Thank you for your time.
Welcome. It’s my pleasure chatting with you. Thanks for using eBay Australia Live Help. Whenever you’re ready please close the window.
Thank you, Petra. The pleasure has been all yours. Please note that this conversation may be recorded for training and blogging purposes.
No worries. If that suits you.
Bye.
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Petra has left this session!
The session has ended!
Not Happy Jan
When eBay made me a PowerSeller, they didn’t consult me or explain the terms.
They assumed the new ‘benefits’ (of which I’m still unaware) transcended those I’d enjoyed as a lesser mortal.
Obviously they were wrong, and I feel decidedly unspecial about my treatment.
A celebration of steadfast loyalty has been botched for the sake of policy, procedure and a few bucks.
Nor do I feel keen to press on with further sales.
Maybe it’s time for a change.
What do you think of it all?
Has eBay sold out?
I bid you speak.
* Not her real name.
Paul Hassing, Founder & Senior Writer, The Feisty Empire
Did you enjoy this post? Why not leave a comment below and continue the conversation, or subscribe to my feed and get articles like this delivered automatically to your feed reader.
In case you’re wondering, Petra’s typos are presented as they appeared.
Given our recent discussion, do you think they erode eBay’s brand, or is this a situation where good English doesn’t matter?
Hi Paul,
They should reward their key customers. End of story. Frequent income generators or the one in a while customers that respond only to price off promotions and specials? Where’s the value stream lie Mr. EBay?
Many thanks for your endorsement, Malcolm. I know you’re a keen eBayer. Have you ever had this sort of ’special’ treatment?
No I tried to give it up and did so until recently. It’s worse thank crack – I have gone mad and spent over $500. Just listed stuff to sell last night to balance the ledger. You have the mix right – sell and sell. Very time consuming to photograph and list just to make $6 though!
Well done kicking the habit, Mate. Yes, it’s a massive time sink. Great for down days. But when work calls, all bets are off.
I knew I was in trouble when I starting bidding on a caravan!
Indeed! The forage alone is a crippling on-cost few sale prices impute!
Paul
Thanks for this post – I’m continually frustrated by companies that don’t value my loyal custom.
Telcos are shocking – if you’ve been a broadband customer for years – all you see these days are sweeteners from the Telcos trying to secure new customers with fantastic offers of free wireless modems and uncapped speeds. To me – I always react “what about me and the hundreds of dollars I have spent with you – where is my reward!)
Julian
Oh, boy; you just hit a nerve then, Julian! I’m totally on the same page.
Against my better judgment, I had a second go at this online help chat caper. Still no luck. I may put it up in a comment as further reading.
Many thanks for your comment.
Gah! I’m already having a Tourette’s-type of fit at this topic. We’ve said it before, I’ll say it again: Business that punish loyalty by excluding them from deals are killing themselves slowly.
And Julian, I think your observation that telcos are the worst is accurate.
This kind of stupidity = face palm + frustration.
And to answer your question, poor spelling and conversation skills absolutely impacts on their brand. Negatively. There are no exceptions.
Hmm interesting topic here Paul. This makes me think of a gym/martial arts club I’m working with at the moment. They’re testing out the daily deal system, and have offered a 1 month membership to new members at an 80% discount + a month free if they sign on for 12 months.
If I was a fully paid member who’d been with the club for sometime, it would be annoying to see these noobs walking in the gym and enjoying the same facilities I do for substantially less cost.
HOWEVER – if the club doesn’t get new members, they can’t improve the facilities, and the quality of classes drops. I actually train there a bit as well, and don’t care how they get new members because it means more sparring partners for me.
In eBay’s case, powerseller’s are going to keep selling regardless, because most of them probably derive a part of their income from it. However it’s the occasional sellers that need the incentive to post more, and if there’s more interesting items on the site then it should attract more traffic; who will benefit most from more traffic? Those with the most listings, and who has the most listings…. Powersellers.
And as Petra said, maybe you need to weigh the savings on a free weekend of listings against the reduced powerseller fees. If you’re still behind then you definitely have a reason to be miffed!
Great to see you back, Stephen and Dan. You two add a LOT of value to this forum.
Glad to hear your aye, Stephen, with regard to English. I was left wondering if eBay had outsourced their ‘help’ to a country where English was not the first language.
First telcos, and now gyms! Are you guys trying to give me a conniption?! Very illuminating to hear your take on this evocative topic, Dan.
My sincere thanks to you both.
My second attempt. I was going to format it so you could easily see who said what. But really, what’s the point?!
Initial Question/Comment: AU Activation
Thank you for contacting eBay Australia Live Help! Please hold for the next available Live Help representative.
You will be able to type in your question as soon as you are connected with a Live Help Agent.
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We appreciate your patience. Please continue to hold for the next available representative.
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Thanks for contacting eBay Australia. A Live Help agent will be with you shortly.
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Your chat session will begin soon. Thanks for your continued patience.
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Thank you for waiting. You can see the current estimated wait time just below the “Send” button within this window.
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Cyndi [NAME CHANGED TO PROTECT THE GUILTY.] has joined this session!
Connected with Cyndi
Hi! Thanks for waiting and welcome to eBay Live Help! My name is Cyndi. Can I have your full name and eBay user ID please?
Paul Hassing PaulHassing
Hi ! How may I help you today Paul?
Thank you for that information.
Could you please tell me how to opt out of being a PowerSeller?
You’re welcome by the way.
Please disregard my last message.
If I understand you correctly, the reason that you’re contacting is you want to remove your PowerSeller program. Right?[
Yes.
Thanks.
I understand that you're eager to know on how to remove your PowerSeller, let me help you with that.
Yes please.
How many customers are you serving right now?
No only you.
I was looking at your feedback.
In order to discuss account specifics with you, I'll just need to verify your account. Could I please have your registered name, email address, address, city, state, zip code and phone number?
I would also want to know hwy you want to removed you the said program?
[DETAILS SUPPLIED.]
The program is no good for me. It was implemented without my knowledge or consent. I’m VERY upset that it precludes me from the 15 free ads per month. I also missed out on the free ads last weekend. This is very bad news for me.
Thank you for that information.
I’m sorry to know that Paul.
It was a real slap in the face for me. Not a ‘reward’ at all!
Actually our system will automatically include you on the program once you’re account is qualified.
So I have discovered!
I respect that.
Is that your final decision Paul?
Yes. I value the free ads and I want to be able to get them again.
Thank you.
Please give me a minute or two to process your request.
OK.
While addressing your concerns, I can’t help but noticed that you have a total of 391 feedback. That’s a great accomplishment! I wanted to take a second to let you know how much we truly appreciate the amount of business that you have done with us.
Thank you. It took a great deal of effort over many years. I was going to advertise 22 items on the weekend. I would have saved $6.60 if I’d been eligible for the free ads, like everyone else was. As a token of your appreciation, could you please credit my account with this amount?
Thank you for waiting.
Your change has been successfully submitted and it will be removed within the day.
Thank you.
Okay.
Can I please have the item number you are requesting for a credit?
It is not one item. It is the 22 unsold items I would have advertised on the weekend had I been able to get the free ads everyone else got.
I see.
Can you give me 2-3 minutes to check some information about your concern, is that okay?
Yes. However, this interaction is costing me time. If we can’t sort it out swiftly, it won’t be worth my while and the opportunity will be lost.
Thanks.
Okay, let me just explain this to you.
In your case we cannot credit the amount you requested because as our rule all PowerSeller are not eligible for any credit.
We can only credit if you really have a valid reason.
Wow. The more I learn about being a PowerSeller, the less I like it! I can’t believe this is how eBay rewards its ‘good’ citizens! What do you do to the BAD ones?! Oh well, never mind. I will get a very good blog post out of this. Thank you for your kind words. I’d prefer a refund, but what can you do? I realise you have no power to resolve my problem. Still, at $6.60 we’re hardly talking sheep stations, are we?
I understand that Paul.
But please understand that as representatives we have limitations on when to credit our members.
I know you’re feel bad about this.
I am really sorry Paul.
I understand that completely. You can give me lots of respect and understanding and nice words. But not money. It’s not your fault. But I don’t see the point of a help system that doesn’t HELP.
Anyway. I have to go now. Thanks for doing what you could.
Thank you for understanding Paul.
I really appreciate taht.
**that
Do not worry I will raise this issue on our meeting today.
Please don’t hesitate to contact us again if you have more concerns.
It’s been a great pleasure chatting with you today Paul.
Take care.
Thank you for choosing and contacting eBay, we value your business. Cheers! Whenever you’re ready, click on the “Exit” button to end the session.
Thank you Cyndi. I hope you’ll forgive me if I do hesitate.
Cyndi has left this session!
The session has ended!
Interestingly, Cyndi corrected her spelling of “taht”. Was this to preserve my perception of the brand?
“hwy”, however, was left as it fell …
As were “noticed” and both incorrect instances of “you’re”.
Odd.
I hear you Dan, about the need for most business to gain new customers. But the reality is that this kind of customer acquisition mentality is lazy. It is flat out lazy, and what’s more it is a false economy.
A better strategy for your gym (and any telco you point a stick at…Grrrr!) is to make it so easy/delightful/useful/fulfilling to business with them, that they:
a) never even consider leaving;
b) constantly rave about how great the service they receive is to anyone who listens;
c) care enough to share great ideas and constructive criticism;
d) are open to offers of other products and services from the business.
This requires a real (yes, REAL) emotional connection to be made with the customer. It isn’t easy, but anything worth having rarely is. If this can be achieved, the business is practically guaranteed to succeed, and doesn’t have to ride on the “how do we bribe new customers this month to sign up” treadmill.
Some starting points are:
1. Reward loyalty. Make it remarkable. Remember it doesn’t have to ‘formal’. Spontaneity usually results in delight.
2. Listen. Yes, shut up and listen, then act on what you’ve been told. Demonstrate you care.
3. Communicate. Share the vision, share the info/expertise/insider knowledge (unless you’re in banking, perhaps…)
4. Make every interaction Remarkable. If you’re not sure what this means, rather than have me try to explain this, just look up a few Seth Godin video talks on TED.
5. Focus on value, rather than price. People return because of perceived value, not because of a price. Be open to what different people consider to be ‘received value’ (it can vary from your personal perspective).
Lastly, I’d love to elucidate on why ‘buying’ customers is a false economy, but I really need to get some work done. Seriously, if you’re not convinced, spend twenty minutes thinking deeply about how this process works (fails?), consider all affected, and the long-term results across not just the business, but the competition, customers etc. If you’ve got the time, come back here and share your thoughts. I’d love to pick this up again later, if you’re up for it.
NOW we’re talking! When the HELL are you coming back for a guest post, Stephen?!?
I’d love to Paul. I’ll get my people to call your people (that is, I’ll shoot you an email later).
Hye, hwy d’otn ew sjut mete onile? ):
G’Day Paul,
That Dan’s becoming awfully cheeky since I became his client. Maybe it’s irreverence by osmosis. And congratulations to you too Paul. I’m waiting with the proverbial bated breff for your post on how to get piles of comments on your blog by appealing to readers’ latent oral inhibitions.
On service; eBay skrewd-can’t help meself now-you.
I have this weird belief that your most important clients are the ones you already have. Move heaven and earth to keep them and to get them to keep using your products and services. Unlike prospects, established customers cost you nothing to acquire. You paid that charge when you first got them. Paul Dunn used to talk about “cementing them in.”
And always remember what Bill Gove said back in the 50s; “serve ‘em to death Billy!”
In case you didn’t know, a “fowl sweep” is what the tail of a fox does in the henhouse. A “foul swap” is when you take the tilsiter back to the deli because your wife can’t stand the smell. A “stink” doesn’t mean anything anymore. The AFL calls them melees!
I’m having fun . And you?
Regards Leon
Leon, I’m having fun because of YOU! Your comments are going from stringht to Strunk. I love your melee of wit, wisdom and weird! Plesea eepk me’ cmoing! Rest begards, Q. ):
Music by which to communicate with eBay online chat help:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xv87iUjrJn0&feature=fvwrel
And yes, Leon; I own this fine album too!
I have a 400+, 100% feedback score, mostly as a buyer. (I have only ever sold one item on eBay and, when I tried a second time, had all sorts of problems because I wasn’t using Internet Explorer [which I can't use as I run Linux.])
So, with these bona fides, why do I still need to complete a CAPTCHA to ask a vendor a question? I’m logged in, I have a perfect track-record – but I’m treated like a random, un-vetted, potential spammer.
Thank you very much indeed for crossing over from Twitter, Smiffy. I feel your pain. I recall you once tweeted a pic of a very attractive eBay anvil. Was that a purchase or a sale? Or just something to hit your head against?
I remember that anvil! It was cool!
Wow – eBay beware. First off, suggesting eBay is like your Crack is one sure way for me to not want to go there Malcolm (#4)!
Consider the level of angst for about $7.00 in value. What is your time really worth, Paul? I wonder if, in the cold logical world, you are way more valuable than that!
Perhaps it is a case of poor segmentation – High volume sellers may deem the value of the ‘trust’ signal sent by the ‘powerseller’ logo to be worth so much more than 15 free ads. In online selling, having the opportunity to differentiate yourself as a trusted source and encourage purchase versus non ‘trusted’ or ‘proven’ sites.
Unfortunately, the value they see in this ‘powerseller’ offer does not apply in your case, and on the basis of your great track record they have made the ‘assumption’ (and isn’t that a killer!!) that you would value reputation and trust projection versus ‘free’.
So, the fact that they assumed and didn’t ask and explain is the real crime. As for the ‘wonderful’ customer service……..
So, new customers versus loyal customers. A conundrum for businesses trying to grow. Some left-field thoughts from the ‘dark side’:
A contracted customer isn’t going anywhere, so why offer them anything until their contract nears expiry – use the recency principle to add value at the time just before the purchase decision and incur no extra costs.
A contracted customer probably took up a special offer to trade their ‘freedom to choose’ for the contract. Perhaps they could be comfortably reminded of the fact?
If the company is incentivising its team on new customers, market share, churn rate, sign-up rate,etc, then the business will be structured to favour new customers over loyal ones. Incentive systems matter in how businesses perform.
Fear of change will hold many disguntled customers in place.
However, it is proven that the best time to sell to someone is as soon as they have bought something from you (”would you like fries with that?”) and the cost of finding new customers often exceeds the cost of selling to and servicing existing customers.
The altruistic answer is about serving the loyal customers, but there are also ‘dark side’ reasons why serving new customers in a special way makes a lot of sense. I suppose it is all in how it is presented to both groups!
The big question is why existing customers react the way that you are expressing – if the offer to new customers existed but you didn’t know about it, how would you feel? What is it about something that is happening between an organisation and someone you dont even know that develops such a visceral response?
By gum, Phil. You sure have given this some thought!
You’re dead right my time is worth more than seven bucks. Unfortunately, I’m a terminally literal person who pursues the principle far beyond the practical!
Ebay’s first big mistake was NOT telling me how being a PowerSeller is good. Their second big mistake was emailing me the freebie offer, but denying it when I applied. Their communication efforts are thus completely stuffed.
Humans hate relative inequity. I’m not too phased by it if I’m on a reasonable deal. What I HATE is being told one thing, only to discover the opposite is true.
Thanks so much for your time and thoughts, Phil. They’re much appreciated.
By the way, Leon. Did you say you and Dan are doing business together? What sort of business, may I ask? Did that arise from you guys meeting in here? I’d love to know!
I totally understand your frustration with eBay! I sell on there full time and each day is a wonderful new struggle to deal with. If it’s not an outraged buyer who never read the listing properly, it’s a new eBay rule designed to make life confusing and annoying. I spent 26 minutes on hold to them today, my poor cordless phone went flat and I have given up… The cheek.
Really nice to hear from you, Tim. And man, do I hear you!
My most (un)favourite moments are when you write:
PICK UP ONLY.
THAT’S … PICK UP ONLY.
OK?
PICK UP ONLY.
And some bright spark asks:
Hi can you post this 400 kg freezer to Adelaide?
Hey, some really good points there Phil.
I’ve only come up for air for a few minutes, so I’ll have to keep this brief. I hope this brevity doesn’t come across as being too blunt.
You’ve immediately taken the position that this circumstance revolves around contracted customers. Understandable, since this is common practice, but what if contracts weren’t part of the deal, or at least not a central, necessary part of the deal? I reckon lots of people resent being beholden to a contract, and there is a way to remove this obstacle and retain clients.
Incentive systems are absolutely a key part of this. Unfortunately, incentives based only on gaining new clients is easy, while rewarding retention is harder. Again, I feel this comes down to laziness on the part of the company.
I think that you are on the money about how the offers are presented are critical to new clients and existing clients. And to be honest, this is where is can be extremely difficult. I may be able to make the most rational case for signing up to my company, but if the competitor is endorsed by Justin Beiber, I’m not even going to get a look in with a particular market segment.
It isn’t easy, but with some creativity I still think that this issue of presenting an attractive deal can be dealt with. I would guess the biggest reason people sign up to 24 month mobile phone contracts has nothing to do with their faith in the telco, and everything to do with the fact they want an iPhone that they don’t have to pay up front for.
Why not have no contract, except for a small financing deal so they get their iPhone (an unlocked, carrier agnostic iPhone at that!).
You mention that disgruntled customers often don’t leave, a ridiculous, but very true, fact. Its too hard, don’t have the time, not sure who to switch to etc.
But shouldn’t the goal be to have zero disgruntled customers? If anyone genuinely gets gruntled, why not make it easy for them to leave. Chances are they’ll be bitching about the competition in no time anyway.
To sum up, I’m aware that this can sound a bit pie-in-the-sky. Even your allusion to the dark side misses the point (most people won’t care whether it is good or evil).
I just think it is Good Business. I also think it is achievable for any business prepared to do the hard yards, and to be creative in problem solving.
Nice one, Stephen! I know who I’m going to put next to Phil next time we all have a dinner party!
Steve, absolutely! I look forward to that dinner invite, Paul!
Zero disgruntled customers is indeed a great goal. I took the ‘contracted’ position based on the evolution of the discussion to include telcos.
At the end of the day, it is how we make our customers ‘feel’ and the ‘experience’ they get from doing business with us that sits of the heart of things. Will Shutz suggested three pillars in his work which I have extrapolated to business and I think are critical in dealing with customers, partners and the world in general. Make them feel included. Make them feel competent and in control. Make them feel liked. Do this and they will walk over hot coals to be your customers. Fail to do this, and seven bucks will stir up all sorts of stuff!
I use this in everything from sales, marketing, change and customer service.
Yep, that sums up much of it, although I’ve never thought of it in those exact terms.
Inclusion
Competency & Control
Liked
It isn’t rocket science, is it?
Best seven bucks I ever spent!
eBay just made me a PowerSeller again!
No consultation. No explanation. Nothing.
And this weekend, they’re also offering free ads again.
But once again, I miss out due to my exalted status!
Some fabulous comments being generated by the forum kindly set up by our Heather:
http://www.ozroundtable.com/index.php?topic=4012.msg169632#msg169632
Thank you kindly, Heather!
You really must pop over the the ebay forum and check out the comments
http://www.ozroundtable.com/index.php?topic=4012.new
Quite enlightening – bring the conversation back.