Business Cards from the Edge.
Hello, my name is …
Our business card discussion (Cardinal Sins) attracted more visitors than any other post.
Given this interest, I thought I’d update you on my quest for a non-crap business card.
Heaven Must be Missing an Angela
The very kind and very smart Angela den Hollander is redoing my business card.
She began proceedings by sending me a design brief.
I’ve sent similar tools to my clients for years. But I’ve never answered one myself.
Now that I know how much effort (thinking) they require, I can see why some clients freak out about them.
But because I had some time on my hands during the break, I was able to knuckle down and push through.
I’ve tabled our Q&A verbatim, so you can see what’s involved.
You’ll also be well qualified to judge what Angela comes up with.
Here we go! Angela’s red. I’m blue.
Design Brief
What is your registered business name?
The Feisty Empire
Do you have a tagline?
Fighting Words
What’s your goals over the next 12 months?
- Get more work from current clients.
- Convert word-of-mouth referrals into new clients.
- Restore losses sustained during the GFC.
- Increase revenue to retire debt and gain freedom.
Does your business name have a specific meaning?
It’s an indulgence. Feisty is my nickname and this is my Empire. Full story here.
Logo and stationery specific questions
What are the three most important things you would like your logo to convey?
- I’m a top-notch expert in my fields.
- I’m original, highly creative and not run of the mill.
- Despite the above, I’m also extremely professional and ‘safe’ in corporate settings.
Your preferences – likes and dislikes
Please send samples of at least 3 logos you like and tell us why. You can forward these via email or send us their web site urls.
Lufthansa. I like the elegant lines and the stylisation of the bird. It’s simple, graceful and effective.
Bentley. I like the old world charm of this logo. The B is nice and bold and the wings are lovely to look at. It suggests elegance and style (neither of which I possess).
Pontiac. I like the metallic sheen, the sharp edges, the red colour and the pointy bits. I feel it suggests grace, elegance, efficiency and speed – all qualities I value highly.
Please send samples of at least 3 logos you don’t like and tell us why.
Pepsi (new). I find this logo meaningless. It’s out of whack and it just looks completely lame. I can’t make head or tail of it. And I hate companies who don’t use capital letters.
Encore Pizza. I find this logo too busy, bitsy and scruffy. The colours make me think of how a pizza would look if it came back up. Entirely the wrong kind of ‘encore’!*
LG. I find the face in this logo contrived and alienating. The left colour (what is it?) is yuck and the grey is dispiriting. And life is not always good. Who the hell are they to tell me how life is?!
What is the exact wording for your logo eg. ABC or ABC – Australian Business Company. Remember that the logo can be a simplified version of your business name as long as we write out your full business name on any materials we produce such as business cards, letterhead etc…
The Feisty Empire
What is your ABN?
18 003 653 664
What names and titles do you need on your business cards?
Paul Hassing.
Writer. Editor. Proofreader. Blogger. Photographer. Founder.
Do you have any qualifications that you’d like to mention and what are the correct post-nominals?
B.Bus, M.A. (Melb.)
What is the main office phone number?
03 9417 3663
What is your mobile phone number and do you want this on your business cards?
0409 334 789
Yes please.
What address would you like on your business cards?
Supplied.
Do you want your social media addresses on your business card, if so, what are they?
Twitter: @PaulHassing
Are there any other ‘must-haves’?
W. http://www.thefeistyempire.com/ E. paul@thefeistyempire.com F. Supplied.
I’m very fond of the current font.
While not wedded to the red ‘sun’, I worry that I’ll have to redo all my collateral if I lose it.
Your View
Well, what do you think?
Do you like Angela’s questions?
Do you agree with my answers?
Do you think I’ll get a good result from this process?
Did you do something similar for your logo?
If not, how did you go about it?
Let’s play logo pogo!
* Turns out I was totally wrong about Encore. When everyone else was closed at Christmas, Fonnie and I had two of their pizzas. They were significantly better than the three parlours we regularly use. I’ve relearned not to judge a business by its logo!
Paul Hassing, Founder & Senior Writer, The Feisty Empire
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I like the questions, some getting basic info and some finding out what you like and don’t like.
Regardless of the Q and A, Angela will come up with something fabulous for you
Mel
Thank you, Mel. I think you’re right on that score!
Hi Paul,
One question for you: are you getting a new logo or just a business card incorporating the logo? The reason for the question is some of the questions seemed what might be included for a brand identity redesign
Hi, Sue! I started out just wanting my current logo on a proper business card. But Angela said she had some ideas she wanted to table. So I agreed to go through the whole process. If the new logo is good enough, I’ll rebrand my website and other collateral (though I’m naturally anxious about the effort this will entail). I’m trusting in Angela’s expertise.
Logos can be a big deal. When we created the MycarBudget logo it took us a few months to come up with a name and have approval for the logo. Funnily enough the shade of purple we used took up a couple of exec meetings. Some people are very passionate about their shade of purple.
It is important to take your time and get it right. As you mentioned it can turn you off a product without you even trying it. You will never please everyone but if you can express your key messge through it then it is doing its job.
Another thing with logos is using the colours and the imagery throughout your merchandise and web, so that it all has a consistant feel and over time becomes recogniseable. So once your logo is done, you will need to update your website etc.
Her questions where quite good and thorough. She might also do some work on what your business name means and what others think it means.
Welcome back, MCBT. And thank you for another high-value comment. It’s great to get insight into how others have tackled this matter. And your story is a striking example of how much effort it can take to get it right. Best regards, P.
Thanks for the answer Paul. Angela probably has covered these already. if not I would add if it is to do with a new design, among other things:Who is your target market (full description), your positioning, your competitors and their designs.
Any time, Susan. You know how I love your questions!
I guess we took a middle path because I was so hesitant about a full rework. I would’ve been happy to see my current logo used, but the fiddly edges have thwarted two previous attempts to render it on a business card.
I therefore can’t wait to see what Angela comes up with.
Hi Paul!
Great answers.. I have similar dialogue with my clients during initial communication. It enables me as the designer a little view inside your (as the client) head.
Often clients aren’t aware, but they already have in mind a mark or a particular style that suits their business.
I also include alot of questions about your business values (see our blog post: http://www.thegoldengoose.com.au/blog/?p=44)so we can really knuckle down the personality of your business and how you want it to be portrayed.
Great post – can’t wait to see them!
Hiya, Leah! I was SO hoping you’d join this debate and you didn’t let us down.
Thanks very much for your illuminating post. It’s so valuable to get multiple takes on an issue with such potential to go awry.
I’ll be looking forward to your assessment of Angela’s work.
(I wonder if she’s beginning to rue the day she offered to help!)
Poor Angela! Im sure she’ll do just fine… I know it’s hard to put an image to someone who can think of things like that cat friend of yours!
Hee hee! Yes, Angela has her work cut out alright!
Loving all the comments and suggestions. The briefing process I put clients through is actually 5 modules long and covers everything from ‘who are you?’, ‘who is your ideal client?’, ‘what’s your personal and business style?’, ‘how are you going to communic8 with your market?’ and then finally in the last module you get to write up your BrandBible a part of which is above.
Interestingly I find that clients who won’t invest the time to work through the modules and then craft a great brief based on their BrandBible invariably turn out to be pains in the proverbial.
Who’d have thought?!
Good on you, Angela.
I was impressed (almost to the point of intimidation) by your comprehensive suite of brand-building tools. They are extraordinary.
I can see how they’re a great acid test for tyre kickers. If you can’t take the time to talk about your own brand, how can you expect your graphic designer (let alone your clients) to get excited about it?!
G’Day Paul,
Happy New Year! I thought i’d start with that because you may not be talking to me after reading the rest of this email.
I liked all of Angela’s questions. I’d add an extra one: What’s the purpose of your business card?
Is it just a reminder fpr people who may have forgotten who you are? Is it intended to be a genuine, living , breathing part of you marketing effort? Is it meant to be a little aide memoire-shows how old I am-for people who’ve already told you that they’d like to meet again to discuss a project in depth? Or is it a bit of card to stick on the wall of a restaurant to let people know you eat there?
Deciding what you want to achieve with it is surely important to the design.
Secondly, why all this kerfuffle about a logo? If you’re Nike or Apple or Macca’s or Mercedes Benz it’s probably most important. But they’ve all spent decades making their logo meaningful. Do you have that sort of time and money?
Now for the” I’ll never speak that pompous bugger Leon Noone ever again” bit.
What about your company name? What does that tell prospects about you? What does it promise them? Does it tell them anything about what you can do for them?
And what about a slogan instead of a logo? What’s your equivalent to “the fresh food people” or “just do it” or “beautiful one day, perfect the next?” I’ll bet that you know the names that they’re tied to.
Maybe it’s time to consider what sort of picture that “Fiesty Empire” creates in prospects’ minds.
By the way, I’m not opposed to logos. But I believe that it’s hard to conjure up a ripper logo when your name and slogan don’t tell prospects anything about you or what they can expect from you.
That’s my two bob’s worth. Please direct all replies to The Society for Curmudgeonly Consultants.grump
Make sure you have fun
Regards
Leon
Hi, Leon and welcome back!
You ask excellent questions, as usual.
My chief need for a business card is so I don’t look stupid when everyone around large meeting tables hands me theirs and waits expectantly.
We established in an earlier post that my business name is possibly counterproductive. So a business card can only exacerbate the problem.
I think your points are absolutely valid for a fresh, young business. But rebranding this late in my particular game is one new trick I’m too old to learn.
Notwithstanding the foregoing, I think I’m going to end up with a brilliant and memorable card that celebrates my glorious illfittingness.
Best regards and please come back soon.
This is one awesome conversation happening here. I think Angela is very thorough with her questioning process. A mark of a professional I reckon. She knows that you don’t know so she’s making your brain work. She needs this knowledge to do her job. Just trust her buddy! lol!
Great to see your smiling face, Helen. Many thanks for your kind comment. I’m 100% with you re Angela. I trust her completely.
So are you changing the sun image?
and Empire/ Emperor all go hand in hand, with thoughts of WW2 what with the ‘fighting’.
I have to confess I would assume from your current logo that you were Japanese (reminds me of their flag
I’m thinking one of your cartoons could maybe illustrate ‘feisty’ in a more endearing way – you know what I mean a frazzled cat fighting back as he’s being splattered with words on one side of the card and somehow all being totally ordered and charmingly dapper on the other (having worked your magic)
I’m sure your business clients would be more won over with a smile, than having someone on the other side of the table threatening to come out of their corner fighting LOL
Not that I know anything about these things, but since you’re being so incredibly open about this quite personal process, thought I’d lay my sentiments on the line too
Linda
*highlights your holiday adventures*
Hi, Linda! The red sun is indeed up for grabs (though I’m scared to contemplate its demise).
I did like the reference to that film Empire of the Sun. But I suppose it wouldn’t be everyone’s cup of tea.
How ironic that you feel the cat was the way to go! I loved that card and was sad to see it change. I guess it’s a tough call to expect a single business card design will satisfy all one’s varied clients.
I’m so grateful for your openness too, Linda. There isn’t a lot of it about these days and it can be quite risky. But I reckon you’ll agree it’s worth the effort. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
Hey Paul, forgot to mention … taking a risk is great marketing on a card. it’s memorable! so don’t play toooooo safe will you? somehow I know you wont!
cheers
Thank you, Helen. I needed to hear that this morning. You are so supportive!
I liked reading her questions and your answers. As an aspiring designer I find this very useful and informative. I thought the process might of been a little bit long though – e.g. a client might get turned off with all the work they had to do to answer those questions (especially finding 6 logos you like/dislike). I have a feeling when someone wants a logo – they’re getting someone else to make it for them for a reason – and they might be too busy to put in lots of thought. But then again it’s kind of necessary to have this conversation to learn about the company you are making a logo for. I feel this conversation would best be done in person or over the phone rather than in e-mail. What do you think? Were you a bit overwhelmed with all the questions and did it take you some time to reply to it all? I know if I received an e-mail like this, I might put it on my to do list and take some time to get back to it.
Welcome to our space, Heidi. And thanks very much for your thoughtful comment!
I agree these questions were a freakout, but I now realise they’re an essential test of a client’s resolve to get serious about their brand.
Angela and I have both been carted up and down the garden path by clients who said they were serious but went to fluff after we’d already put in some hard yards on their behalf. Once bitten …
As a writer, I much prefer written Q&A. Angela’s questions did take some time, but I was very glad I went through the process. A phone interrogation would’ve frozen my brain on the spot.
Having worked in several design studios, I’ve seen the result of poorly articulated client wishes. Perfectly good logos have been rejected because they served merely as point of departure for the client (having crystallised their thoughts on what they really wanted).
I say it’s far better to let them crystallise in the comfort of their own offices and THEN come to us for expert service.
What do you reckon, Angela?
I think the process that Angela is using is going to give you a great business card. We use the same process when designing business cards or logos for our clients. One thing that I would like to add is how would your business name and logo look if you were to shrink it down smaller enough to be printed onto a pen or other type of product that you may want to give to your clients in the future. My advice is to keep it simple and preferrably to one or two colours as you may want more than just paper items down the track.
Hello, Narelle. You’ve certainly illuminated a perspective I’d not considered.
You’d better put me down for half a dozen of those branded cheese cleavers. I know just who to send them to …
Thanks heaps for enriching our debate!
Here’s a crowd that knows who they are and why:
http://www.bethanie.com.au/index.php?page=our-logo
Big thanks to our Sarah for the heads-up:
http://www.globalcopywriting.com/content-marketing-how-short-and-sweet-converts-to-sticky-content/
Thanks Paul, I guess each to their own. After re-thinking, these questions definitely needed to be covered. I guess people who are not willing to answer the questions might not be fully committed to the process and could definitely flake out or lose interest. When you have to invest your time/ money into something you usually want to follow it through to the end.
Oh – and by the way how do I get a picture to come up for comment? I tried to add one but it went in the wrong place. I can’t see a place to join up/ upload an image.
I reckon you’re right Heidi.
With regard to your photo, I must appeal to Naomi for the tech specs.
Naomi, are you in da house?
As a designer myself, I am amazed that you actually fully filled out the design brief. I tend to only get info on a few areas and then I know that I’m going to have help with some business development before we can even get to the design project.
This brief is quite different from my own in which I focus more on learning all I can about my clients business and strategy. Not their design preferences. I believe that design (especially brand identity) should be directed by research, and knowing all I can about my clients, their industry and their competition helps me design a solution that is perfect for their situation and market. Not necessarily in a style they like. It’s more important that the designed piece Works for you, not that you personally like the aesthetics (though that’s not unimportant). I think you’ll end up with something good. This approach isn’t wrong just different from my own. Good luck.
Thanks very much for taking the time to stop by, Clayton.
We’re being totally spoilt for industry perspectives this time round.
I knew I’d get into trouble if I didn’t do Angela’s bidding, so I did. As she intimated in an earlier comment, this questionnaire is merely the tip of a formidable suite of discovery tools that had me quaking in my boots. I think I got off very lightly.
I agree with your approach. Fortuntely, Angela knew my operation well enough to spare me the full cross examination.
@Heidi ~ To get your image to come up when you post comments (on any blog) go to
http://en.gravatar.com/
It’ll then be linked to your email address (which you have to enter when you post)
Linda
*highlights your holiday adventures*
Cor, Linda; are you hip to the groove or what?!
Thanks for your help.
Thanks Linda it worked.
You’re welcome
G’Day Paul,
,Just love “glorious illfittingness.” Pretty feisty stuff! “Too old to learn” Really? I changed my business name three times in the first fifteen years of its existence. And I reckon I’m more than a tad older than you.
But it’s your business.
I thought you might be interested in two quotes by Al Ries that I came across by chance this afternoon. Truly! I was searching for something else when I found these.
“A branding program should be designed to differentiate your cow from all the other cattle on the
range; even if all the cattle on the range look pretty much alike.”…… .and
“Customers want brands that are narrow in scope and distinguishable by a single word, the shorter the better.”
I admit that I’ve been an unabashed Ries fan since 1991. Woollies own “fresh:” Volvo owns “safety.” What’s “The Fiesty Empire” own?
You did say “please come back soon.”
Regards
Leon
Hi, Leon.
You’re only as old as you feel (which makes me about 132 this week!)
Thank you for sharing your back story. May I ask why you changed your name three times and what you changed it to?
Also, each time you changed it, did revenue go up or down? And how is the business performing now, relative to when you began?
Al Ries sounds a lot like Seth Godin with his cow call. Did he come before or after?
The Feisty Empire owns four words: Clear, Correct, Concise and Effective. But we were the mobile phone bidder at the auction, so only my sacred circle of discerning, ethical clients is aware of this signal fact.
I could broadcast it to the world, but I only want to deal with 1-in-10000 organisations who understand and crave the extraordinary value of my expert services. So, The Feisty Empire will do for now.
Best regards, P.
Sory Paul and Heidi – missed that comment yesterday. But looks your lovely photo is now working Heidi. Thanks for the tip Linda!
Great discussion here! Thanks everyone. I’m really looking forward to seeing the outcome Paul!
No worries, Naomi. Linda sorted us right out. It is a nice photo. Did you take that one yourself, Heidi?
Hoping Linda’s advice works as well for me and I will finally get a picture working.
Great comments from everyone, I’m feeling the pressure now, so many eyes watching…
It’s fabulous to see that the other designers take the time to ask lots of questions too. I’m a big fan of working collaboratively with my clients to create something that they feel a sense of ownership of. I have known other designers though who prefer to present just one concept they deem to be ‘the’ solution. Horses for courses I guess.
Paul, you’ll be relieved to know that a rebrand needn’t be the massive financial commitment that it once was, back in the days when all stationery needed to be printed and brochures were mandatory.
Most of my clients only print business cards and often a greeting card/postcard. The rest of their materials are delivered electronically, letterheads are a simple Word template (though I encourage pdfing before sending for security), brochures have been replaced by websites.
I’d love to know what everyone thinks is the most important branding tool they have in their toolbox? Is it your business cards, your website or something else?
Picture looks fine, Angela!
Thank you for your calming words. And excellent branding question.
I point everyone and thing at my website (and check my stats five times a day).
Once I get my youbeaut business cards, however, I’ll be handing them out like there’s no tomorrow!
G’Day Paul,
Seth Godin! Wash my mouth out with soap for saying so but he’s a Johnny Come Lately compared with Al Ries. Al came long before Seth. With Jack Trout he wrote the seminal marketing book “Positioning” back in 1981. Have a look on Google.
I changed my business name three times. The first time was when I realized that my business name at the time was just an egomaniacal rant for me. I changed it to “Training Australia” Everyone said it was a fabulous name. I had a spectacularly trendy logo. But once again I realised that it could’ve meant anything. It didn’t say what I was training or who.
I changed it ti Noone Self Instruction Systems after talking with, you guessed it, Al Ries. I may change it again now that I have an online business.
I promise to stop now. Thanks for your indulgence
Regards
Leon
Thanks very much for the extra info, Leon; it’s very generous of you to share your story with us. It’s also nice to know I’m not the only egomaniacal raver out there! Best regards, P.
It took me all off 3 hours to come up with the design of our logo and a week and a half deliberating. I hope its ok because it is now allover the web.
Many thanks for sharing your logo, OFB. Have you had any feedback from stakeholders re its suitability and appeal?
Hi Paul, People seem to like it as it represents the company Group Purchase Online Pty Ltd.
Good show, OFB; I’m glad to hear it!
Hi Paul,
Can you tell me what is happening with your links back to me. I have 2 pages of nofollow which are no good for anything. All I wanted was a follow back.
I will have to cancel my membership if this carries on.
Best regards
Dave
Hi, Dave. Each time I click your avatar or name, I’m taken to http://www.grouppurchaseonline.com.au/ is this not what you want to happen?
Or is something else happening that you can describe for me in greater detail? I’m not sure what ‘2 pages of nofollow’ means.