Seeing Yellow
Twice a year there’s a loud thud on my porch. Each time, I look out to see youths, stripped to the waist, hoicking white or yellow tomes from a flat-bed truck. Lately, the Yellow Pages have been joined by Local and In-Car editions. As I don’t use any of these books, this escalating waste of resources got me thinking.
First I polled Twitter. My statistically irrelevant survey quickly generated the following (verbatim) responses:
1. White & Yellow Pages are an anachronism. I’m just gonna miss having them for kids who need boosting up in a chair.
2. I find they are handy in the garden; good compost and plant stands.
3. Opt me out now! My home, work & phone are wired; [electronic] search is quicker/easier.
4. Pick up White/Yellow Pages books from front door. Remove plastic shrink wrap. Place in recycling bin at back door for collection.
5. I use the White pages, but never the Yellow.
I next emailed bookdelivery@sensis.com.au asking how to opt out. They kindly replied:
You can just reply [to] us to cancel the yearly delivery of these books to your address or alternatively call us at 1800 810 211.
I also asked:
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How much do these four publications cost you to deliver to each household?
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What percentage of households chooses not to receive them?
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What happens to the books when they’re out of date? Does all the ink make them hard to recycle?
They responded:
Unfortunately your questions can not be answered here … We deal mainly with the ordering of directories. I would suggest you call 13 23 78 navigating through to Customer Service (not the Book Order queue) and request a call back from Marketing. Possibly this is data that they could supply. I do know however, that our directories are 100% recyclable …
At the bottom of the email was the line:
Sensis cares for the environment – think before you print.
Well, I’ve had a think and I’ve opted out. These books weigh a tonne and all that plastic wrap can’t be good for the environment. As soon as they’re printed, they’re out of date. As I’m lucky enough to have a PC with internet access, I prefer online searches. I sense (and hope) these books will go the way of plastic bags in supermarkets.
This, of course, is a user’s perspective. Your printed Yellow Pages ad may well be the lifeblood of your business. I wonder if it’s possible to go half way, with just an online Yellow Pages ad.
The lines are open: what’s your call?
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Paul, a very timely article as the Brisbane directory listings close at the end of July and we’ll be discussing our Sensis print budget with our franchisees this Saturday.
We tend to view a print listing as a ‘necessary evil’, but don’t bother competing with the large display ads. We run line entries instead and encourage franchisees to consider listing in the Locality Guide located at the end of their appropriate YP classified section, where advertisers are listed by budget.
We still do get a number of calls from this medium, but also run online campaigns too. Personally I ‘google’ or now ‘bing’ search for services.
-Sonia
Thank you, Sonia. I’m very glad to have your view on this, as it’s an issue close to my heart. Any further insights you can offer down the track would be most appreciated. Best regards, P.
Whilst I agree with what you say in general terms about Yellow Pages Paul I must point out that, although I think their life as a hard copy print edition is limited, there are still a huge number of people who use the Yellow Pages regularly. They are…
1. Older folk who are not computer literate and therefore don’t google for things the way the younger generations do, and
2. People in country areas where slow downloads and poor coverage make using the net a trying experience.
So going half way with an on-line Yellow Pages advert is not a goer for many businesses.
That’s why the TeleSeminar http://www.winstonmarsh.com.au/teleseminars.htm I run regularly on how to make your entry in the Yellow Pages really work its backside off for you is still pulling in a crowd.
Thank you, Winston! I was hoping you’d drop by and give us the benefit of your decades of experience. I hadn’t thought of those two demographics you mentioned. Folks, you’d be VERY well advised to check out Winno’s link. P.
Hi Folks,
Wow Paul! Now you’ve hit the realm of ‘my’ marketing plan :- ) Yep! That’s pretty much it!..the Yellow Pages :- P.
I can respond to your quandry very specifically from personal experience; I asked Sensis if I could get an online ad ONLY. I couldn’t…everything is still driven by the hardcopy ads. They did however say that they were looking into this option and it may be available next year…lets hope.
It cost me about $650 for my ad/s (Black Border, 6 lines including Bold Heading). As I recall, the hardcopy component was about $400 & the other $150 was for the online bit.
So far I have had about 30 phone calls from my ad and it has driven approximately 40% of the traffic to my ‘itsy-bitsy’, little ‘un-marketed’ website (to give this some perspective, that’s about 200 unique visitors/month since mid April).
If only my business was trading when the ad was published, as I had intended/hoped/prayed
…thanks to non-bank financial organisations for ‘dickin’ me around for 4 months…but that’s another story.
If I was actually trading during the aforementioned time-frame and was able to turn 10% of those contacts into sales, the ad would have more than paid for itself already. As it is, I have had some nice chats with folks over the phone, several of which may yet become clients.
As for the enviro-issues…I concur. And I also concur with the fella that reckons they make great compost. I would venture to take it one step further: A stack of Phone books is a great nursery and apartment block for compost-worms (that’s the ‘Red Tiger’ variety)…they just love ‘em. They move in, lay a gazillion eggs and then everyone just tucks in and eats the lot.
Ok, this turning into another mega-post so I’ll stop here.
Cheers
Stephen G
Can’t ever see that company doing well with 2 way communication tools like twitter. I’m sure that data exists somewhere, at least they could use to harness conversation in creative ways. Perhaps its too early? You would think that I use them as a stand for my PC monitor.
Important points Wintson.
Those of use that live in the ‘big smokes’ often forget that only about 22-24% of Earthlings are internet users (Ref: Wolfram Alpha – ‘Internet Users/World Population’ = http://bit.ly/CaCG1 & ‘Internet Users’ – http://bit.ly/2OPeQV).
Cheers
Stephen G
Crap! I meant ‘Those of US…’
I totally agree – opting out should be easy, however Sensis are able to market ads in Yellow Pages based on number of copies distributed. They have a vested interest in continuing the printing of Yellow pages especially. It would be good to run a survey of how many people actually use Yellow Pages hardcopy, Online or use Google to locate a business. My other beef about wasting paper is – Saturday Sydney Morning Herald – unless you are in the market for a new car, real estate or job – you could halve your take home/recycle papare. But again it is the distrubution numbers that sell the ads. Some businesses have a vested interest in printing paper that is going straight into recycling
And then what about all that unwanted advertising that hits your mailbox – Yellow Pages twice a year pales into insignificance when you consider the weekly unsolicted flyers from Woolies/Coles/Office works/local pizza & thai restaurant and the rest
Dear Stephen, you sure put the ‘worms’ into ‘can of worms’! The knowledge you have in your brain is quite extraordinary. Thanks heaps for your insights and especially your stats. They really give cred to this discussion.
Welcome, Margaret, and thanks to you too! You’ve raised yet another point that I completely failed to consider. All we need now is for Sensis to ‘weigh in’ and we’ll have a fully fledged debate. We do seem to be drowning in paper. I’m reminded of that scene in ‘Brazil’ when Harry Tuttle (Robert De Niro), literally gets blown away.
Great to meet you, Cameron (though your link didn’t work for me). I don’t have anything against Sensis. Rather, I hope they’ll hear this clarion call and take steps to become a better, more sustainable (and ultimately more profitable) company.
Seth Godin says EVERYONE in a firm should be that firm’s Marketing Dept. This was a case in point. That distribution person had a golden opportunity to convince and convert me, but wasn’t trained or authorised to do so. At least, they should have asked Marketing to call me (rather than vice versa).
I have a feeling it won’t be long before we welcome a Sensis representative to this forum. I greatly look foward to hearing their views.
Great comments everyone.
Like any advertising medium, your Yellow Pages committment should be driven by determining if that is where your target audience goes when shopping for your product or service. I agree that this would be more appropriate in regional areas or with ‘older folk’.
And as with most advertising methods, sometimes the only way to find that out is by trying it, testing it and measuring it. Much better to go off your own, proven experience from trialling than from relying on other people’s experiences or the sales pitch from Sensis : ) Unfortunately that testing can take some time due to the 12 month shelf life of your ad, as you also need to determine if the response is due to the print format or due to the contents of your ad.
-Sonia
Believe it or not – This is a topic on my mind the last few days.
THANK YOU for the opt out info
Now to find the US version
LOL!!! USA
Good on you, Sonia; thanks for your return visits! I’ve just put the call out on Twitter for Sensis to join us. I wonder if they’re watching, listening, waiting, (freaking)…
I agree with you that measurement is key to advertising. I was very sceptical (and fearful) of Google AdWords but I’m slowly coming up to speed with that very complex tool.
The amount of analytical data at my fingertips is phenomenal. I’m already getting traffic from India, after only one day’s advertising in that country. I’m adjusting a host of variables every HOUR, rather than every year. It’s a whole new world!
Welcome, Evie. Sorry I don’t have the US info to hand. Will you let us know if you find it? Best regards,
Good news! @SteveatSensis picked up my Twitter request and has promised to join our dicussion this afternoon. From conversations Steve’s having on Twitter, it seems there’s a lot of interest in this book issue. Stand by!
My link points to a post I made a few days ago on this general subject. In brief, enough Aussies advertise because enough Aussies use the Yellow Pages. Australian-owned Sensis is the odd man out among YP publishers – something worth celebrating among the doom and gloom. Opting out is easy and appropriate for the under 30s.
How about a new thread, “I hate Hummers because they waste fuel. They should be banned.” At least that could threaten US jobs, not ours.
Does it also make a huge difference what industry your business is in, and where most of your customers are drawn from? For example, if you own a restaurant (Stephen, tell me what you think…) a lot of your customers would be local.
Speaking on behalf of Gen Y, I would still prefer to pull out a hard copy phone book to order a pizza than bother to boot up my computer to look up the local pizza joint at 8pm on a Saturday night.
Can anyone add to that? Or am I the most old-fashioned ‘under 30′ going around?
Thanks for your comment and link, Ash. I thought your post was well worth the visit. I’m humbled by the number of perspectives I never knew I didn’t have!
It certainly is a drag to boot the PC up when you get the hunger, Megan. But let me ask you this: how much would you pay for your annual Pages hit? $10? $50? $100? I played this game with Fonnie and, though she also likes to use the books when the PC is off, she admitted that she wouldn’t pay one single dollar to receive them.
She also raised the excellent idea that Sensis could print on the cover of their next edition: ‘Hi, this is your last free, automatic set of books. Next year, you’ll need to opt in and pay us $10 to get them. What do you say?’
What does everyone think of that concept? I’d LOVE to know how many people would cough up the cash.
Hmm, VERY interesting idea. I reckon I’d pay $10, as long as they made it easy to pay…if I had to proactively order/opt-in, I probably wouldn’t.
Come to think of it, I might just keep the old ones for as long as possible…chances of the local pizza shop closing are probably minimal.
Thank you, Madam. We have ten dollars. Ten dollars for this fine set of Pages. Any advance on ten dollars? I’ll take fives. You Sir, up the back, with the how-to TeleSeminar. Shall I say 15 dollars?
@SteveatSensis courteously advised that me that he has run out of time today. He will contribute next week.
Hi Folks and especially, dear ‘most old fashioned ‘under 30′ going around’ person :- ),
My apologies for not responding sooner…I’ve been a bit technologically challenged the last couple of days…all is well now I’m happy to say.
To answer your question Megan (from comment 20), I would have to say that the nature of my business dramatically influences the marketing decisions I’ve made. However, choosing Yellow Pages was as much a matter of tradition & professional courtesy as as it was a ‘marketing strategy’.
Being a very small, local business, my target market is of course local. My Yellow Pages listing is locally focused (save for the Online Ad, but even this clearly specifies my locality). I consider that making my business accessible at a basic level to be matter of professional courtesy (something many large companies including telcos seem as yet unable to grasp…and NO! Answering machines don’t count…I talking about people that won’t let you contact them directly; that won’t provide a last name when I have done so…pisses me right off…but I suppose that’s another story :- ).
It has been something of a challenge for me to convey to others (especially the business community), that I designed my business so that it would require very little marketing…I have even gone as far as calling my marketing strategy a ‘non-anti-marketing’ strategy (I used this term in my business plan).
In my experience I have seen a great number of small businesses (and especially community groups), either struggle or ‘fall over’ because they do too much marketing and find themselves unable to keep up with demand…word of mouth seems to work equally in all directions. When people begin to associate an inability to deliver with your business or brand than that is not good.
Being a ‘one man show’, I need to be careful not to put myself in the position of being unable to provide pizzas to a crowd. And to manage this I need to have some understanding (& respect), of the dynamics of crowds at different events.
e.g. A football crowd. Here in Canberra we have some fairly large sporting facilities and often host international level events like the Rugby Union. Now these events pull crowds of up to 40,000 people. If I went to such an event with my little mobile pizza oven what would I face? At such an event a crowd has very specific behaviour…they mostly only want to buy stuff at half time. Now if 3,500 people decide they want one of my excellent pizzas at half time, I’m going to piss about 3,450 of these potential customers off, because I can only deliver about 50 pizzas in that amount of time.
I hope that helps…
Cheers
Stephen G
Great insight, Stephen. Thanks for laying it out for us.
When Megan posed her question, I began wondering about Seth Godin again (I do that a lot these days). Seth wrote something to the effect that if you’re REALLY good at what you do, folks will put the word around for you and you won’t need to market at all.
Seth cited the example of Amazon.com. Apparently, they ploughed their entire marketing budget into free delivery. I can’t recall the stats, but it was a BIG hit.
Could that work with your pizzas? Imagine the point of difference of free delivery! The word would surely spread…
As Sitting Bull said to Crazy Horse: ‘It’s just a fort’. P.
Hi Paul,
And ‘fanks’ for your kind and expanding ‘forts’ Paul :- )
Although that particular ‘fort’ is not my preferred business practice, my business model is flexibile and adaptable enough to accommodate it should the need arise.
However, the overall philosophy that you attribute to Seth Grodin is indeed the fundamental philosophy underpinning my entire operation.
For some reason my mind is immediately drawn to ‘Sustainable’ business practice, which again underpins my business. I think that practical actions as those discussed here regarding Yellow Pages and the various ingenious ‘opting’ ideas suggested are, while absolutely necessary, necessarily symptomic of deeper and heretofore largely overlooked issues…what I mean is that so far, ’sustainable enterprise’ seems to be aimed at making what we are already doing (e.g. rational ecomomics), ’sustainable’ in the literal sense, as opposed to altering our business practices so that HOW WE DO BUSINESS is ACTUALLY sustainable in a ‘PRACTICAL’/LIVING sense.
Using my business as an example – Doing anything 5 or more days a week is patently unsustainable. This is why my business is designed to trade 3 days per week. This leaves a day for prep and admin and 3 days off. Though I don’t for a moment expect this to occur immediately, I will move toward that rhythm organically as my business establishes her roots and moves toward her first flowers and fruit.
THe bottom line? As I used to say to many of the scientists that I worked with in the Public Service: “Do you have any idea how big Nature actually is? To which the only honest answer is ‘No’. Then I would ask, ‘do you imagine for one moment, Nature ever NOT getting it’s own way’. We seem to be showing only faint glimmers of comprehending ourselves as ‘part of nature’ as opposed to our current cultural insanity of ‘dominion over nature’. I believe that our business practice would do well to become more ‘harmonic’ with if nothing else ‘OUR Nature’ if we are going to continue happily…
Cheers
Stephen G
Hi there guys, I took some pics last week of the Yellow Pages “cuttings” which cover the local train station here whenever there’s a big match at Wembley. Check it out here http://marketingisaconversation.wordpress.com/ If I was Yellow Pages I’d certainly look at how to tackle this negative branding message to the ten of thousands who trample over their pages on a big match day. I reckon these experiencial things do make a difference to the current “value shift” around advertising in the Yellow Pages.
Ange
Cheers,
You’ve gone all metaphysical on us, Stephen, and I couldn’t be happier. I really hope there’s a change in the air. We don’t have much time if we’re to retain our place on the planet. And if Yellow pages turns out to be the trigger to a raft of better ways, fantastic!
Thanks for your fascinating insight, Angie. Who’d have thought we’d be getting such a different perspective? This topic has more layers than a foil-wrapped souvlaki! Best regards, P.
Dude! If altering our actual business practices is ‘metaphysical’, then we are all in much deeper ‘doo-doo’ than I thought! :- )
Cheers
Stephen G
Hi Paul and Co. Sorry for not getting involved here earlier – it’s a great discussion and one I’m keen to contribute to. I’ll respond with some brief points but happy to take questions.
- An average of 4.3 million people used the White Pages print directory each week in 2008 (Source: Roy Morgan). And they used it on average more than three times each, resulting 13.4 million searches
- An average of 3.6 million people used the Yellow Pages print directory each week in 2008 (Source: Roy Morgan). This was a 6% increase on 2007.
- People using the directories come from all walks of life
- Not everyone has internet access. The latest ABS figures around one third of Australian households don’t have internet access.
- People often use print directories to compare and contrast, get more information on a business/government department and the services they provide. If you haven’t got your PC on, they can often be quicker to use than online.
- We recognise people use a variety of ways to search for contact information, which is why we make directory information available in print, online, over the phone (ie Directory Assistance and 1234) and now from mobiles
- People that don’t require a printed directory can call Sensis on 1800 810 211 (select option 1 and option 4 for White Pages or select option 2 and option 4 for Yellow Pages) to request not to receive a directory.
- Sensis is committed to minimising the environmental impact of our products. Three immediate examples of this are:
- We use recycled materials in the production of our directories
- We recycle leftover paper materials from our production process eg all the paper waste generated at our printers and distribution sites is recycled into cardboard packaging, kitty litter and housing insulation.
- We work with local councils and organisations such as Visy to encourage people and businesses to recycle their old directories. In 2007/08, Australians reused or recycled 96% of White Pages and Yellow Pages directories (75% recycled, 21% reused).
That’s enough for now – hope that helps.
Dear Steve, thanks very much for your informative input. I’m surprised and heartened that you answered the call so swiftly and thoroughly.
I’m still curious to know what percentage of households chooses not to receive printed books. Would you be able to answer that one?
Best regards and thanks again! P.
Yep! Damn good of you Steve…thanks :- )
And damn impressive of you to bring Steve in Paul :- )
Steve, it would also be good if you could verify/confirm whether or not what I was told is in fact true re: pending ‘online only advertising purchase option/s’?
Thanks
Stephen G
Thanks, Stephen. I’m obviously impressed that Steve responded so rapidly and well to my tweet. I can’t work out whether (A) Sensis was so switched on that I automatically appeared on their youbeaut Web 2.0 feedback radar, or (B) some kind soul worded Steve up at a BBQ and he quickly created a Twitter identity to douse this spot fire. Either way, Sensis gets my vote for venturing where many corporates would be too frightened (or indifferent) to tread!
Paul – there’s less then 1000 businesses and households on our list to not receive a directory. That usually surprises people but we know how strong print usage is.
Stephen – you can in fact purchase Yellow Pages Online advertising without print. Typically however, the combination drives strong ROI.
See here – http://www.yellowadvertising.com.au/?Our-Products/Yellowcomau/Yellow-Pages-Online-Product-Guide
Steve
Dang, Steve; that is indeed a staggeringly small figure. This is proving to be quite an education! Thank you for answering. P.
Yeh! Thanks Steve…much appreciated.
And Yep! You can add me to the ’surprised’ list :- P
I went to that webpage and then I rang them…they indeed confirmed that Online Only Ads are available.
Cheers
Stephen G
Great discussion Paul
Of course there are other people who are questioning on the same topic.
An article from yesterday – http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25683500-12377,00.html
In the light of this info – is YP Book the largest distribution of ‘junk mail’ we have in Oz?
While still recognising that regional areas favour YP more than metro folk (due to slow downloads, slower uptake of technology) and of course early Boomers still rely on it (for the most part).
Pk
Wow, Pk; thanks for this! I heard the tail end of a radio report last night and now I see what they were on about. How ace that our discussion was topical. And how kind of you to add this link for all our benefit. FYI, I couldn’t follow the link behind your name. Let Megan know if you want that fixed. Best regards, P.
Worth having a look at the follow up story – http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25683977-12377,00.html
This type of behaviour gives research a bad name don’t you agree?
Steve
Welcome back, Steve. That article certainly sheds a different light! This topic gets more interesting with every comment. How fortunate we are to have such a broad, civilised and authoritative discussion. Please keep those links coming! P.
Wow! This IS getting juicy isn’t it? If this discussion gets any bigger it’s going to end up with it’s own Wiki… :- P
Thanks for the great pointers Pk and Steve. And damn! Is that a comeback by the Yellow Pages or what? :- )
I reckon Pk’s question is a great summation for what is likely to be on many people’s mind in relation to this discussion. Fortunately Steve is helping to answer this and other questions…
And to your question Steve; I hope that discussions like this and the comeback by Yellow Pages lead to a tabling and rigourous analysis of the data supporting the findings of CoreData and/or TrueLocal. It would be interesting to find out who actually interpreted the findings?
One would hope that such a tabling would offer Yellow Pages an opportunity to do the same…though I wouldn’t want to turn it into a Royal Commission… I think that in the context of our national & global response to ‘Climate Change’ & interconnected issues, we have bigger fish to fry than ‘waste paper’? :- P
I agree wholeheartedly that it is bad when the term ‘research’ is applied to such stratagems as represented in the linked ‘The Australian’ news articles (Comments 40 & 42 above). I also think and hope that such behaviour reflects more on those responsible, than on ‘research’ itself.
The big mystery is, are our intrepid blogger Steve@Sensis and the articulate Mr Stephen Ronchi one and the same ‘Super-Being? :- )(Insert X-Files theme music here…just the first bit…don’t over do it, like me :- ).
Don’t worry Steve; I don’t expect you to fess-up on that one…actually, I prefer the mystery ;- )
Cheers
Stephen G
Good on you, Stephen. As a Queen’s Counsel, you make a great Pizza Guy!
Crap! Is it that obvious? Ha! :- )
Garlic Bread anyone? :- P
Cheers
Stephen G
The Men came for me today.
Not in a truck this year, but in a white van.
I didn’t expect them.
I had asked The People In Charge not to send them to my home any more.
One of The Men hurled a Yellow Pages into my front yard.
It landed with a loud thud, startling my dogs.
This time, I decided, it would be different.
This time, I would do something.
I stood up.
I left my desk.
I opened my front door.
I went outside.
I picked up the big, heavy, useless, plastic-wrapped, Yellow lump of paper.
I hefted it in my hands.
My heart started beating faster.
I went to my gate.
The van was three doors up and moving.
I yelled.
I yelled: ‘HEY, MATE!!!’.
The van stopped.
Very much like the tour bus stopped in the film ‘Babel’.
The passenger door opened a crack.
I yelled again.
The door opened more and one of The Men got out.
He looked at me.
I threw the Yellow Pages with all my might.
Over my fence.
Onto the footpath.
Away from my home.
Back to the earth.
The Man looked at me.
He glared.
He started walking towards me.
I went back into my home and shut the door.
THE END.